Apologetics · CEC · History · Philosophy · Religion

(How) Would Jesus Vote? – Part 2

Comments made on http://larrywho.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/who-would-mother-teresa-endorse-mccainpalin-or-obamabiden/

I agree that Mother Theresa would have a strong inclination to endorse McCain/Palin for President, however, I ask the question, like I did on my blog in a recent post, who would Jesus – if He was “alive” today – endorse/vote for. Granted, the question is an odd one… for would Jesus vote? I believe he would, for He did say “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s,” and that simple statement can go far beyond taxes, but to the whole political system as a whole. When Jesus said this, I believe that He was not just talking about taxes, but also prayers, blessings, and support. For as St. Paul tells us to pray for those in authority over us – both spiritual and civil, it also means to be involved in the process… for prayers and blessings are a form of involvement. So, who would Jesus endorse… hard to say, for I believe it would go far beyond just one issue, just one policy, one speech, but I believe it would go to the heart of the man. One man cannot change policy in this country, whether it be abortion, same-sex marriage, education, health care, etc etc etc… but the heart of the man is what matters.

jzholloway,

Welcome. Good question: How would Jesus vote?

You cite some interesting points, but you fail to mention that the Lord also disqualifies people and nations for various reasons throughout scriptures. These reasons are called sins. And an abominable sin is “the worst of the worst” sins, right?

Israel was disqualified and removed from the Lord’s favored nation status because of one sin known as the sin of Manasseh. What was that sin? Killing babies and children.

Now, out of the various issues that are a part of this presidential election, only one carries the weight of an abominable sin. That’s abortion. (Proverbs. 6:16)

Maybe, you’d argue, but what can one man do to stop abortion? The next president will choose one or two new justices to sit on the Supreme Court and these justices may well determine whether or not Roe vs. Wade is overturned.

So, who would Jesus vote for? Not Obama/Biden. They are disqualified by abortion

I made these comments on the above mentioned blog post, and I appreciate the response from the blog owner, but I also wanted to post this here, as well as my rebuttal.

First, we have a conservative majority in the Supreme Court, Roe v. Wade still hasn’t been overturned, and most likely wont be, without an act of God – unless we have a conservative majority in both Houses of the legislature, as well as a conservative President, and even then, legislation either has to be brought up – or, some one has to challenge the ruling in the courts… and for a challenge in the courts, it does not take a Pro-Life President. Second, I agree, abortion is a great atrocity, the neo-holocaust of this generation, however, it is murder… and it is not the only form of murder. To say that Jesus would not vote for someone who is pro-choice also means that Jesus would not vote for someone who is pro-murder of any kind. Also, abortion is not the only “great” sin that is rampant in the United States.

Proverbs 6:16-19 (KJV)

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

ALL SEVEN are an abomination – and if you go by that, they all have lied, they all have pride, they all have been a false witness against each other, they all have personal desires and plans (the plans of man are wicked, only the plans of God are righteous, etc)… now the mischief part I am not sure about… and with innocent blood… thats not just babies, or pre-borns, but the elderly, the mentally disabled, innocents in war, etc, etc. Oh, and sowing mischief among the brethren… just look at the events this past week. Even McCain in the very recent past has hesitated being completely pro-life, hence the placement of Gov. Palin.

Anyways, my point is, no one running for election is perfect, no one is blameless or without sin, all four claim to have a faith – a deep faith in Christ, etc. Also, we all have broken at least one, if not all – in ways – seven, for Christ said to call your brother a fool is to murder him – innocent blood, at least in spirit.

The vote has to go further then just one policy or fault, it has to go far beyond one platform or another. To be so blinded by an issue is dangerous – for example, one can be pro-life, which is great, but he could also be a warmonger, or an economic fool, or a domestic idiot… but hey, he is pro-life, so lets vote for him. If the recent interviews of Sarah Palin are any indication of her strength… then we are in serious trouble.

Lastly, my point I guess is, Jesus would vote for whoever the Father wanted Him to, for all authority under heaven is given only by God. Yes, even dictators are allowed to have authority because God has given it, and sometimes God puts men in power who are evil… why, like most of our wonderful faith, its a mystery.

JZ Holloway

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11 thoughts on “(How) Would Jesus Vote? – Part 2

  1. JZ,

    Thanks for opening up your blog to this discussion. It is very gracious of you. The following is my reply to your above comments:

    JZ Holloway,

    Very good points about Proverbs 6:16-19.

    Okay, how many laws are on the books which make it lawful to: give a proud look, to lie, to shed innocent blood, to devise wicked plans, to run to evil, to be a false witness, and to sow discord amongst the brethren?

    Just one. And it’s called abortion.

    There are no other laws on our books that make the other abominations legal. Now, why do you think that is? Helloo! They offend God, and who really wants to offend God? Even pagans do not want to offend God!

    We are talking about a law that states it is okay to sin. Not just any sin, but one that is an abomination in God’s sight. One that could bring disastrous judgments on our nation.

    “I agree, abortion is a great atrocity, the neo-holocaust of this generation …”

    Though you made the above statement, there is no passion in your words. It sort of reminds me of people who want to walk in the ways of the world, receiving pats on their backs from unbelievers, and yet, tossing a few bones to Christians. Sort of luke-warm, right?

    “To say that Jesus would not vote for someone who is pro-choice also means that Jesus would not vote for someone who is pro-murder”…

    Which of the four candidates are pro-murder? As far as I can discern, only Obama voted four times against the Born Alive Infant Act in Illinois. He was the one that came up with the so-called comfort rooms for the babies to die in.

  2. Hey Larry,

    My pleasure to open up, and have this discussion!
    First, I will agree with you that the only law that legalizes ALL seven is abortion, however, its not just all of those seven things together that God hates… its all seven, each individually.
    God hates sin, period. All sin, each individually. I do not believe the issue is just policies and votes, but sin. Now, that stated, personally, at the moment, I am voting for McCain, not just because his platform is pro-life, but because I believe he is the best man for the job. Its his other policies, along with his pro-life platform, that I agree with. That stated, if the only thing I agreed with John McCain was the his pro-life stance, I would not vote for him. Not because I believe abortion is right – I believe it is a sin, and like you said an abomination to God, as well as mankind – for the fruit of the womb is the Lord’s – but because the issue of abortion, though extremely important, is not the only issue that matters to the survival of this country in the world today. For instance, to lie with a man as with a woman, as stated in Leviticus, is an abomination to the Lord (again, abomination), and yet, McCain supports same-sex unions – not marriage, thank God, but unions all the same, in other words, condoning the act of homosexuality as a natural condition – and on top of that, none of the candidates running for president support same-sex marriage, but they all support – except maybe Palin, unions.
    God is judging this country, no doubt, and He is also judging the rest of the world for the multitude of pro-choice stances… and saying that, in today’s state of international interrelation, how God judges one country, will affect all of the rest. That being said, I do believe abortion is extremely important, and I do feel passionately about the issue – like I said, it is the neo-holocaust of this generation, and I believe those are pretty strong words – however, it is still not the only issue on the table, it is not even the only issue of morality.
    To go even further, Christ’s commandment to us is to take care of the widow, feed the hungry, clothe those who are naked, help the poor, etc… these issues also matter to me in the election. The state of our economy, matters to me in this election. The wars in Iraq and Afganistan, matter to me in this election – especially since I served in the United States Marine Corps from 2000-2005, our energy crisis, matters to me in this election. All of these issues matter to me, and should matter to everyone who lives in this country. Trust me, a Republican President – just ask Reagan, Bush 41, & Bush 43 – cannot overturn Roe v. Wade… a conservative Supreme Court cannot overturn Roe v. Wade, and a conservative legislature, cannot over turn Roe v. Wade, only God, moving in the hearts of men and women, can overturn Roe v. Wade, as well as fix the rest of the problems in this country.
    The issue to me is not always how someone has voted, or what position the hold on certain issues throughout their lives. Even God spoke through an ass to the Israelites. God can use, and will use, who He pleases. I pray that the man God wishes to be elected, gets elected – even if that is Obama/Biden – and here is why.
    Only God knows our hearts… and only God can change them. Politically, yes, we can judge candidates by how they vote, by what they say – but to coin an old adage, have you ever met a politician who told the truth? Along with this, God can change a man’s heart and mind, and as I said before, McCain cannot overturn Roe v. Wade, only God can. I do not judge Obama, or anyone else for their pro-choice stance, instead, I pray for them, and I pray God gives them the revelation of His Love and Truth.

    Jared

    P.S. Trust me, there was passion in those words

  3. JZ,

    How do you write so fast?

    And I also figured the word about passion would stoke your fires. So, forgive me. But at the same time, it was worth seeing your passion come through your comments.

    I am not a one issue voter, but I write mainly about one issue which is abortion. To me, a politician is disqualified for supporting abortion. If everyone who is running for an office supports abortion, I write in a candidate. There is no in-between on this issue with me. It shows the moral character of the politician.

    Do all politicians tell the truth, the whole truth, all the time? Yikes! Probably not. There are certainly some distortions here and there with all them. So, I am not naive. But I also believe that there is a grace from God for His servants to enter into the political arena.

    “God hates sin, period. All sin, each individually.”

    But not all sins are equal in weight before God. Some are called abominations. Some transgressions. Some iniquities. Some are just called sin.

    “I do not judge Obama, or anyone else for their pro-choice stance…”

    I do judge him and other politicians who support abortion. This is a visible fruit of their labor and we Christians are called to judge fruit. Now, do I judge Obama’s heart? No. Do I pray for him? Yes.

  4. I wouldn’t call the support of abortion “fruit,” I’d call the consequences of their support of abortion fruit… however, their continued support of abortion doesn’t yield any fruit that was new before Roe v. Wade… and the only fruit that has come since Roe v. Wade is legal (yet, not lawful) abortions. Again, I judge the wickedness of abortion… not those who have abortions, not those who support abortions – but the sin it self. Therefor, I do not judge Obama, or anyone else who supports abortion, I judge the abortion. Abortion is the fruit of the support of abortion, not the support itself. Just as the Jews supporting the crucifixion of Jesus was not fruit, but the Crucified Christ, as well as the redemption of the world, was the fruit. Again, I say judge the sin, not the sinner. Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to save it, He also said judge not, lest you be judged… I’ll let God judge the sinner, and I’ll stick to the sin.

    P.S. I might not be able to respond again until Monday, but please, keep posting!

  5. JZ,

    “I wouldn’t call the support of abortion ‘fruit'”

    Jesus said that you will know them by their fruits (Matt. 20). Politicians pass laws, back laws, act a little, and talk a lot. This is their observable fruit. (Now, remember that I am not talking about their hearts.) So, there is nothing wrong with judging the fruit of their labors.

    Most people when they quote Matthew 7:1, “Do not judge so that you will not be judged” do not realize the instructions for judging a person which are given in Matthew 7:5, “first take, the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

    “Just as the Jews supporting the crucifixion of Jesus was not fruit…”

    Actually, you are incorrect on your assumptions on this point. Jesus spoke about this in Luke 19:41-44. And also, the Jews, Jerusalem, and Israel fell under a curse because of their acceptance of guilt (Matt. 27:24-25).

    Don’t be confused with the differences between individuals and nations on their relationships with Jesus. Individual Jews come to Christ all the time. But the nation of Israel has to fight its way out of some prophetic problems and curses to become the anointed nation that it will eventually be – someday.

  6. Hey Larry, I did get the internet working at my apartment… yay! Anyways, I see what you are saying about fruit… I was thinking in a slightly different train of thought, and in the way you put it, I agree with you.

  7. Awesome… I actually like that comment, “Jesus was a community organizer; Pontius Pilate was a governor.” However, I disagree, for Jesus did not “organize” anything, he was followed. Along with that, Jesus did not stay in one community long enough to organize much of anything, however, he ministered to the people of Israel, healing the sick, casting out demons (which for those “believers” in the media would be Jesus attacking witchcraft and the demonic), and teaching the Kingdom of Heaven. Now, his disciples, and later apostles, they, in a sense, were community organizers – organizing Christian communities throughout the Roman Empire, which eventually led to the churches in different cities, leading to the eventual spread of Christianity.
    Yes, Pontius Pilate was a governor, and I do not know the point that is trying to be made here – but to elaborate on what it meant to be a governor in the Roman Empire: The governor was the emperor’s representative of a particular geographical region, who answered directly to the emperor, especially concerning the stability of the region. Its also important to note that Judea had a “king,” who also shared the responsibility of keeping the Jews at the time at rest – thought he really didn’t care, nor did he do that great of a job. Again, I thought the comment was “cute,” but I really do not see the point of it.

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